Interview With CEO & Founder Of Zapbox Mixed Reality Kit
Transcribed using Artificial Intelligence.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, mixed reality, headset, Kickstarter, world, google cardboard, means, VR, technology, AR, device, build, experience, support, magic, space, HoloLens, cardboard, camera, Unity, MR, virtual reality
SPEAKERS
Sebastien Perez, Caspar Thykier
Sebastien Perez 00:00
What's only $40 and is guaranteed to blow any person's mind? The answer, you're not gonna want to miss it coming up next. Do like cool stuff. Me too. What about free cool stuff? What about free cool stuff that absolutely blow anyone's mind? Wow. Well, you're gonna want to stay tuned to the end of the video to find out about our awesome giveaway where you can win something absolutely mind-blowing for absolutely free. Wow. So for details, stay tuned to the end of the video. And also check out the links in the description below. Of course, if you love what you saw today, make sure you drop us a “like” to support the channel. If you didn't drop us a dislike, let us know why in the comments down below. And of course, subscribe, because you're not gonna want to miss what we've got coming up next. This is Sebastien at TDA. And we have a very special guest. Today we're gonna be talking about something really exciting. You know, when we think about AR VR and mixed reality in general, we think of something very complicated and far and expensive. And I have a gentleman today who's going to explain to us how that's simply not true. And that there is a better way. Today I have with us, the CEO and founder of Zapper, Caspar ......Thykier (trying to pronounce the last name)...
Caspar Thykier 01:41
It’s close. Thykier. I'll give you a seven out of 10.
Sebastien Perez 01:49
All right, well work with it at least I have a passing grade. Well, thank you so much. So let's jump into a quick TLDR too long didn't read about why they should care about mixed reality before we get into what it is that you do. And what's the difference between AR, VR, and MR?
Caspar Thykier 02:12
Yeah, I mean, we couldn't have made it more complicated. Could we, unfortunately, well, it was a university project, whoever when I know we'll call it Augmented Reality is if anyone would ever understand what those two words mean, put together. It sounds very complicated. So I mean, Augmented Reality is, as I think about it, it's just magic on your phone, it's a way that we can use the camera in order to then put other inputs. So it might be animation. Or it might be sort of audio, or it might be text, whatever that might be to hear over the camera image in order to give you more information and more context to the thing that you're looking at. So I think augmented reality is really just a way to use the camera, discover new things, see magic? I'll put the thing, right. Because mixed reality was something that really came out as an expression from Microsoft, as a new way to think about how you could experience AR but room at room scale, you know, make it more immersive. So I think there's a lot of debate as to whether mixed reality is a separate thing to AR or is it a subset of AR? Or has it just confused everyone?
Sebastien Perez 03:37
Well, we're gonna simplify everything today. And I think that one of the big things here to remember is like, if we talk about like things that are maybe more familiar just to just for those who are new to this concept, virtual reality is sort of the what we have back here we have some VR headsets and that's what we know is got maybe goggles. And this is where you leave the entire world right so sometimes you want that, that's great, like when you need to enter a whole new world but also a lot of people really enjoy and there's a good use for it as well a lot of people know as like maybe the Instagram face masks or Pokemon GO or you know, basically seeing things in the space shared with real world so you see your friends around you see your whole room, it's not virtual, but yet there is magic inserted think walking through Disney and seen a you know, floating butterfly that couldn't be possible without the magic of what we're talking about today. And what's even better is it doesn't have to be complicated. It doesn't have to be expensive. And that's I think what we're talking about today is Caspar has created this clever, clever product that you're going to want to hear today. They have a wonderful Kickstarter. They've been funded successfully multiple times, they have a successful company. And I'm super excited to talk with him three years in the making. So if you want to know how excited I am here, it is so fantastic. So Alright, so we talked about why we should care. I think that let's jump into that a little bit more. Why should the average person, maybe non developer, and then maybe past that, what is the sort of opportunity for people who are maybe developer or, or enterprise people, but first, the average person? Why should they care about mixed reality?
Caspar Thykier 05:35
Well, I mean, I think the first thing is that, you know, people are clearly getting on with their lives. So in order for someone to care about something, they've got to spend time with it, and find that they are getting some form of value back from it. So for mixed reality, it is really that sense of being able to look at your environment, through a lens, and be able to through the power of computer vision, and through all augmented reality, bring objects to life in front of you, that you can interact with, and that you can then discover new things around. And so that might be for gaming, it might be for education, it might be for learning, and training and development. I mean, there are lots of things that mixed reality can bring to life in your space, depending on who you are, what you want to do. And so I think it's a new way of thinking about, let's say, just a clear table in front of you, you know, that clear table with mixed reality, can have anything appear in that space, it could be machinery, it could be a dragon, it could be, you know, tabletop game, it could be a pyramid, it could be whatever you want it to be, that conforms to, you know, the type of, I guess, story you want to tell. And I guess people speak about this notion of spatial storytelling in mixed reality. I think that's the exciting thing is that it's there in front of you in the real world, as you see in the sort of Star Wars movies, and Harry Potter. But this is now something that you can do with your mobile device, affordably and experience in your home.
Sebastien Perez 07:23
Absolutely, that's fantastic. And I think one of the things that I think is misinterpreted, often by hearing something like virtual reality, or mixed reality, or seeing these headsets is that it is a video game machine. And that is not for people who are not into gaming. And I think that what's exciting, in fact, if you're just new to this concept, is that this is the (excuse me for these words,) the 3D computer, right? And so, it means it can do everything that the computer can do, right, of course, people have to build it, which is why we're talking to you today, because you guys are the future of this field. But really, you know, this device allows us to, for example, IKEA chair, right, if I wanted to buy that chair, I could see it right here in the room. We are 3D beings, we live in a spatial work world, which What that means is basically, we walk around objects, we see it from multiple sides. And the hidden opportunity here is like, you know, and of course Caspar has worked on some of this kind of stuff for major brands and clients but it's adding a secret hidden layer of magic to anything in the physical world as possible. So you're talking about as he was saying, a tabletop game now, we used to play Monopoly on the table, right? And now all of a sudden, this could all be 3D in our rooms walking around on our table, Mr. monopoly Can you know jump off the table and whatnot. So, there's really the opportunity even packaging, right so you guys have worked with I'm just going to name a few hot names. You know, Warner Brothers, Hasbro, Chiquita Banana, so you so for anyone who doesn't think that it's not, yes it applies to them. It literally applies to everyone. Fanta, Nespresso, Disney as we were talking about magic artists, singers like Wyclef and Adam Lambert. We've got movies like transformers and Green Lantern. So really this thing can artists, painters, educators. Enterprise sky's the limit here because it is essentially the computer. Would you agree?
Caspar Thykier 09:47
I think (unintelligible) you'll meet it. I like to think of these in very, very simple terms. Because I'm quite simple person, I guess. Ultimately, we have this camera on our phones. And we now have this new way of using the camera to deliver information to people. And that could be something that is, you know, surprising and delightful and, you know, brings these amazing properties that you've mentioned in film, music, sports, etc. to life. Or it can be for utility and information on packaging, that might be about sustainability, or you know, the provenance of a product or telling more of its brand story. It really doesn't matter. But what's so exciting is that we've opened up this new canvas, this new way of seeing the world, as you say, everything becomes a digital Discovery Channel. Now, I don't think that's to say that, you know, that's the end of physical, you know, Goodson play patterns and everything. And, and in fact, without reality, the augmented and virtual and mixed bit, you know, it doesn't really mean a lot. So, I think that interplay between the physical world, and then the digital overlay, if you like, is what makes us so magical. It's how that transition happens. And, you know, I think a lot of these things don't have to be grand and complicated and expensive, as you say, they can actually be quite small, and then simple and beautiful. But really resonate with people. And that's, I think, what's so exciting.
Sebastien Perez 11:19
fantastic. So, I do want to give people an opportunity to know what it is we're promoting today, there's, they have an awesome Kickstarter, and I'm going to be showing you, we have version two here, today. And the upcoming Kickstarter is even better than before. So, we're gonna be talking about this solution, but also v2 today, if you can believe this most augmented reality, or mixed reality headsets range from about $3500, depending on what enterprise package, you have $4,000, you can get down to $3000. There are some solutions at $1200. But for a lot of people that's sort of out of reach, and we want you to be able to do amazing things. So, these brilliant guys have leveraged existing technology at scale, meaning your phone, cardboard, and now in the upcoming version, beautiful plastic, a nice solution with lenses embedded, and we're going to get into all that. But here's the headline, $40 bucks, $40 bucks gets you in the door controllers, you know, a platform, I mean, it's really, really impressive. And so, I think everybody at home has $40 bucks. So, you're gonna want to listen up to more of what we got talking about today. How can we find that Kickstarter? And how many days are left? I see that we're at November 6th at 9am. So, if you haven't grabbed it, go and grab it right now. Caspar tell us a little bit about this Kickstarter.
Caspar Thykier 12:51
Yeah, absolutely. Well, well is that box has been quite a journey for us as a business. And it's something we've been working on for the past five years. And you mentioned sort of what was the version 2, then obviously there were version one before that. And the initial thought really was exactly as you said, this is an amazing mixed reality sort of kits that are out there, you know, the awesome work that might have to do with HoloLens, you know, Magic Leap and everything that was promised there. And, you know, these were incredible things that that we wanted more people to get their hands on, because we talked a lot about sort of democratization of technology. And so internally, we had this phrase of, well, let's try making Magic Leap magic cheap. How do we bring affordable mixed reality to more people? And how do we do that, as you say, on existing hardware, from existing phones, in a way that people could get their hands on. And also, then, different developers and designers could easily produce content for. So that started life with our sort of card where versions with v1, and v2, and what we've just launched on Kickstarter, and I think another 17, or 18 days to go is the all new ZapBox, which and I've got one of the 3D printed versions here that you can see all different new kind of form factor. So goal is the cardboard. And in comes this very sort of slim headset, and with these see through arms in which you can then place your device. And the whole thought here is a sort of design principle that that governed everything was just super simple solutions. How do we try and make a headset that is comfortable and easy to take on and off? the outcome, we actually allow people for peripheral vision because actually that's it's really nice to feel a part of the space that you're in and not have that closed off and slightly scary feeling of well, where am I and where can I move and All those other things. And then we needed something that obviously could securely mount different types of phone and, have new types of controllers. So the old controller looks like this, the new controller is much slimmer. They both have completely analog inputs. So you can see that one there that goes up and down. So that gives an input. And then we also went for a new code design, which we'll talk about as well. So we went through from a point code to what we're calling a d3 dot dot dash code. reimagined, basically, but still, at this $40 price points. And that was so important, because it is really about how can we get this into the hands of more people? And how can we get them to experience a mixed reality? as, as we know, we are eventually on a journey from these things existing on devices and headsets. But, you know, at some point glasses, but that's probably quite a way off. So how do we get people to experiment with these things? So yeah, it's an exciting journey, where I think we've just passed 50% of the level we're trying to get to on Kickstarter, we got about another 18 days to go. So yeah, absolutely. If anyone's interested in going over to the Kickstarter.
Sebastien Perez 16:25
Fantastic. And you know, we're actually going to be giving away one of these. So you definitely want to stay tuned till the end. So you can find out how you can win one, we're going to be probably giving away a few and actually put this in your hands get started, I'd love to give it to somebody who wouldn't otherwise, consider getting into this field and really bridge that gap here. So we're going to be talking about how we can give away one of these. And then of course, we're going to have a first look at the upcoming Kickstarter. Once it comes out. I have a promise from Caspar, so (laughs)
Caspar Thykier 17:00
I definitely want to get one for you.
Sebastien Perez 17:03
That's awesome. So yeah, guys, stay tuned. But if you don't end up winning the prizes here today, listen, $40 bucks, I can promise you, it'd be some of the best money you spent you can go from, that's what I call an investment when you can drop $40 and then enter a new industry, and perhaps walk away making a bunch of money. So it's not just having fun with your friends trying out some mind blowing content for $ZapBox40 bucks. And so I'm actually let's talk about this quickly. I also love that what you said, How can we make Magic Leap magic cheap? That's great. And so yeah, so I wanted to maybe talk about to dispel some of the maybe initial confusion. And then also kind of explain how we got here by speaking a little bit about your company. And then and then also like the inception of ZapBox. But first what I wanted to sort of talk, my first question really is that people's initial reaction to hearing the word cardboard is reminiscent of Google Cardboard. And so because VR is very different from MR. You know, some people's first experience was on a Google Cardboard for virtual reality. I have a great deal of respect for the scalability. But you know, fundamentally, mixed reality is a completely different type of experience. That's why I brought Caspar on the show today, because this is not as simple as just a Google Cardboard, although I've read that it does support VR experiences. But before we get caught up in that this is really a first of its kind, and especially at this price point. So I'd like to, to explain the differences between what this is how is this different from Google Cardboard? And and we'll start there, and then we'll jump into, you know, why about the other headsets and the differences between that
Caspar Thykier 19:01
I should definitely say that we had the utmost expect respect for what Google did with Google Cardboard, because what a brilliantly disruptive move to go. Again, at the time when all the amazing VR headsets are coming out to go, Hey, hang on, we can just put this in a box with a couple of lenses. And you get quite a fun experience. Love that. And we really took that mindset on with the first ZapBox kits that we did, which was actually if we let's take some of that Google Cardboard shape and just cut out the front. So we can see well the camera and then be looking out and then use cardboard to make the controllers everything. And I think that was a really nice way to just make people go, this isn't so distant, we can bring this this post to us. So I think as you described, you know the thing about VR is about you entering another world, and fundamentally the thing about mixed reality is bringing that other worlds into your world. And so that requires a different you know, under the hood way of thinking about how we can understand that surface that we're looking at, and how we place content on it faithfully. And I'm not technical, so I won't get into the technicalities of it, but it's likely that we have some very clever people who are good at this stuff. And the challenge there is, you know, how do you get 3D objects to sit? stereoscopically because, you know, we see with two eyes faithfully on a surface. And actually, when you want to have controllers that go with that experience, how do you make sure that you've got a field of view big enough, so that you can have your hands comfortably in that camera view, and be interacting with those controllers, especially if we're just doing it with just an analog input, so no consumer electronics in here at all. So that just requires a lot of different things you've got to think about, okay, so we want a wider angle lens that we need to put on there, we've got to understand the surface that, you know, we're pointing out, we've got to make sure that that thing faithfully is you know, in the right place, so you don't kind of question it, you know, and everything works. So you're not tricking the brain and making it feel uncomfortable. There's quite a lot of things to kind of, to think about that. And then how do we make it a content authoring environment, and that means that not going to cost the earth to make stuff, and people can publish it really quickly. So there's a bunch of stuff, I guess, we spent 10 years, making sure that we can do in order to make this work at this end of the market. And what we hope is that people are, you know, positively surprised by that experience, you know, we're never going to go, Oh, you know, this is better than Microsoft HoloLens, or no, because those are incredible bits of equipment that, you know, understandably, cost a lot of money because it signal words get there. So it's not trying to go one is better or worse. But I think as a way of going, do you know what you can get a hell of a long way to have a real thing, mixed reality experience with something like that ZapBox. So what do we have to lose, if you like. And the last thing I'd say that is different is that what we're doing is we're doing what's called as video see through and, in doing video, see through with mixed reality experiences, it means we can make things look solid. And if you're using sort of optical see through, that's great, and it's good for faster motion in those headsets, and there's lots of good reason for using those. But it doesn't mean everything is going to be slightly ghostly. And if you've got a light, it's going to look, you know, then you're not going to have the same level kind of opacity as video see through. So it's not a it's not one of those ones, that one's better than the other, but they offer different types of experience. And the things that we favor are ones that are tabletop, and controls that you can look around and interact with and share and be collaborative and, but kind of make it feel as if it's there.
Sebastien Perez 22:58
Absolutely. And I think that was very well put. And so I just want to clarify some of those things just for those new out there. And so he talked about a few things here. So we talked about being able to put it on a tabletop and being tracked accurately. So if you're new to what that even means that's totally cool. Basically, you know, if you want if you look at Pokemon GO or any type of augmented reality that you may be familiar with, when it's not done very well, it kind of shakes on the table surface, or maybe it's floating above it, and you know, that Pikachu should be running on the table, but for some reason, he's floating one inch above it. And basically, computers have to know, okay, how can I play this, this 3D object on the table that makes it feel real, and because of that, there's a lot of scientific sort of challenges. And, everyone takes a different approach to how to do that. And so I think that I really love what he said, which is basically, you know, it's not a better solution. It's, it has its own use case. And what's great about this is not only about the technology itself, but the builders, there is enough space for everyone to enter this ecosystem. And really learn and gain from this space. It's a beautiful magic space. And, and so there is a use case for a $3500 headset. The thing is, that's not for everyone. And that's again, that's what we're about here, a little bit more about everyone. But we want to inspire, you know, people of all walks. And so the other thing that you mentioned was field of view. So we're going to try to break down these nasty little terms. Field of View simply means that you can see as you would in reality, you have this much view, I can see the whole room. And sometimes when you wear headsets, it sorts of blocks that field of view and the thing that You're able to see has a limit. For example, as they say that Magic Leap was similar to seeing a hologram but looking through somebody's mail slot. And so, you know, there's a cropping. And so what's interesting about Zapper and their and Caspar's approach is that they're using what's called pass through AR, which means that they're, instead of trying to make clear lenses, which is what another thing that contributes to the price of these things is scientifically, we have not really figured out how to scale clear lenses that can shoot light into it, but then it's still visible during the day, and then is powered correctly, and has the computer built in and blah, blah, blah. And the reason why we say all this is because to say when you see people with gigantic, goofy headsets, it's not because we don't know that they should look cool. It's more so that there's technical limitations, and really MR is on the forefront of something that hasn't really been achieved to the mass yet. And this is a, I would say a solid approach, a scalable approach, intelligent use of replacing expensive hardware with just smart tricks. And I want to break down some of those in a minute. But I also want to give the mic back over to my man Caspar for a little bit, because I've been talking a lot here. So Caspar, getting some feedback please.
Caspar Thykier 26:27
Yes, you are right, we have to get so used to these terms that we forget that they are alien to most. And you're right. So that bass, that's a super simple solutions piece, you know, to the things that we've done with the with the news ZapBox is, so we always had, you'll see on the front here, there's this sort of little lens adapter. And that's the thing that, again, quite easy for us to find that lens, but we put a new fixture on it, so it can hold over the over the camera. Now obviously, some of the new devices like the iPhone 12, and 11, they do come with a wide-angle lens that we can take advantage of. But there's still hundreds of millions of devices on, you know, in people's hands that don't. So why don't we just put that addition on to allow that that bigger field of view, as you say. And there's also another thing that we've done that on those lenses that you know, were in Google Cardboard, and for the new ZapBox, we've just cut the bottom of them. And that has a really interesting and simple but brilliant sort of effect, which is it means that when you're when you're looking through this headset, and you're kind of looking through the phones mounted from where the headsets are, you're not aware of the edge of the phone. So everything in your field of vision that has mixed reality in it, that's you know, looks real. But then you've also got your peripheral vision. So your peripheral vision is all clear. And then you've got this amazing thing happening, you know, in the field of vision that we're able to use for the for the face reality experience. And again, that sounds kind of obvious. And it's one of those things that until you try, it's quite hard to explain exactly what it is that is that point that you've made about something floating or being straight on the table. We're so used to things being correct in the world. And it's amazing how much that we take in that when something as simple as that is off, we're very conscious of it. So trying to make things feel solid, be in the right place, you know, take away edges, they're all tiny little things, but all together just make that experience more enjoyable and more kind of immersive and feel more magical.
Sebastien Perez 28:35
Absolutely. I have I have a good example for you. You know, expectations, right? So we would expect again, in science or in technology, we just expect things to work the way that they work, because we've had brilliant minds that make it that great, right. But, you know, it's sort of like the submarine. You know, we expect the submarine to make the submarine sonar pulse sound. Well, It doesn't. But they have to put it in movies because that's the expectation, right? Here's another expectation sorry for the dad joke here. In the United States, we expect the eggs to be white. So we pass through a process of bleaching to meet the expectation of the people and that's why you don't see brown spotted eggs. So all that to say that when we think about something so advanced, like mixed reality that feels far away, when we when we listen to companies like Apple or some of these larger companies, they're saying this is too far away. And what I love is that companies like Zappar are putting it into people's hands right now. Right? And so you can help build this thing. You at home can help build this thing to make it feel the way it should. And one other thing I wanted to note here, that maybe for the people out there have tried virtual reality, but not so familiar with mixed reality or augmented reality, there is a difference. It's seeing your reality, seeing it, and then having overlays, or magic inserted. And what's really great about Pass-through AR, is, which is what Caspar is working on. We naturally know how we want to see the world around us, because we don't want to crash into that we always see that on YouTube and TickTock people, you know, crashing into a wall with a VR headset. But with this you actually see around you. And some people who have experienced some motion sickness or those kinds of things, it's just much more natural for our physiological body to experience the world in a 3D space, that we know what our balances are, I can see the floor, right it and we don't need to recreate a fake world. In order for it to feel natural, it is natural. And what's in natural is this magic inserted, which you will decide at home what that magic is.
Caspar Thykier 31:05
Well as any one of the things that we weren't expecting but has worked out incredibly well. To that point is how good the headset is at VR experiences. Now, if you are making some, you know, horror movie, or horror VR experience where you really want to enclose people, and you're trying to use all the senses, and you want it to be closed off, I totally get that. But what's been surprising is for some of those ones that are, you know, VR, streamed movies or other sort of elements, and how nice it is to see that in ZapBox. I think that's partly because you are aware of your surroundings , and we know, I guess just the way we use our sights, although we have this incredible vision, when we are we tend to be focused on the thing in front of us, we blur all that off, naturally. And it's the same with watching VR in the in the ZapBox headset, your attention is in front of you, you're slightly aware of this, which is nice and you're right, it helps you with balance and everything else. But you're typing like you are in a cinema or movie theatre. You know, you're looking at the screen, there's lots of actually, if you thought about it, there's actually quite a lot going on with people munching popcorn and moving around and do what I need to do. But you're engrossed in the thing in front of you. And that's very true of using ZapBox for VR, which was a unintended consequence, it was not something that we really set out to achieve. But it's lovely to see how it works.
Sebastien Perez 32:22
Absolutely. And it's also just incredibly exciting. Because, you know, let's get down to these terms here. AR, VR, MR, Right? And XR, Oh my god, yeah, for people at home, I'm sorry that you have to deal with all this complicated words. So what's fantastic is that I see a world and have seen a world in which we get rid of these terms. And we just call this like the computer or something. And, or technology or I don't know exactly what we'll end up calling it. But what Zappar is doing (not trying) is making these separate categories all in one single device, which is what a lot of futurists and a lot of great thinkers have said, these things will merge into a single device. And we won't really know the difference, we won't have to explain the difference between Which one do you want VR AR it's more like shut off world turn off, turn on world or turn off everything. And then or just some augmented, just a magic little bit of magic, a lot of magic, right? So that is what's really cool. It means as a developer, you can kind of work on both it makes it like you know, the ultimate headset. And also I want to talk to you about the simplicity of getting started. So if you are maybe new to development, you know, how easy is it to get started? And you know, maybe we'll talk a little bit about ZapWorks. And what that means. And also if you are someone who is not a developer, or just works at a business or you are an educator and you're thinking, Oh, man, this would be perfect right then, but I don't know how to build, then they've got you covered too, because their team at Zapper can help build world class experiences what they call "zaps". And those apps are basically bite size entertainment experiences that range from about 30 seconds to five minutes. But as Caspar were telling me earlier, sometimes these experiences are like Wow, so cool for half an hour an hour and we don't know. So it's all about what you'll build out there. So give me some thoughts here.
Caspar Thykier 34:56
Yeah, you are right. I mean, I'm getting back to our I guess central Principle of democratization that there's two that we thought about as a business there. One was, and you could remember, we started back in 2010-2011. And at that time, there weren't really that many platforms that understood how to describe AR content for a mobile device. None of these work to our satisfaction. So we did end up building one ourselves, which, as you say, is called ZapWorks. And the thought behind ZapWorks was to create a content authoring and publishing environment that made it super simple for people of different ranges of experience to build an AR experience and be able to instantly see it in front of them by pressing preview, and instantly publish it into the FREE Zappar app, or they could put into their own app. And so there are different ways that you could do that. It could be for people like me, who frankly, have no coding experience, and so, how I just sort of describe our designer tool is like PowerPoint Plus, if you like, I think that now is cam would probably be the more up to date with Dragon different media. And so that might be photos, and videos, and you know, other things that, you know, create your experience. Obviously, there are also very gifted developers and designers who do have some coding experience. And so they could use our ZapWorks studios tool. And that is based on using JavaScript. And you know, so you do need a bit of coding language. But what we have also realized and released earlier this year was a wrapper around ZapWorks that we call universal AR. And that is going well, it's great as that ZapWorks can do this as a tool. But there are other coders who have spent a lot of time working in Three.js or Unity or like using A-Frame, you know, these are other tools that, I guess developers use in their different roles. So why not allow them to do that, but take advantage of our underlying sort of algorithms, for face tracking and tracking that sort of seeing a table type thing or BMC as an image tracking, so all these different things, and allow people to then be able to, again, have that simplicity of be able to make that content once and publish them wherever they want. Now with ZapBox with version one, or version two, you could make stuff using ZapWorks platform, you had to have some coding experience, so you couldn't publish the design right away. But the thing we're really excited about announcing with the new ZapBox is a plugin for unity. So there'll be a ZapBox SDK for unity developers. Which is great, because you know, as you all know, the Unity has one of the biggest communities, or the biggest I think of people making content across XR, all these different Rs. And so opening that up for that community is just super exciting for us. Because, you know, just means, again, the all the different potential use cases that anyone might be able to think of can be made and supported.
Sebastien Perez 38:10
Fantastic. Well, so I think I definitely for the people who are ultra-technical, I'm going to do a quick breakdown at the end. But I want to keep the newcomers engaged and involved in the conversation. So I definitely think that let's push this Kickstarter one more time. If you guys are not familiar, they've got this fantastic $40 product. Now here, I'm holding the version two, which was about $30. But now for that extra 10 bucks, you get a fantastic plaque plastic setup. You know, it really has improved the I assume the tracking as well. But really, you want to check out their Kickstarter, and you want to be an early funder, as you may know, they've already passed 50%. The last Kickstarter, just so you know, these guys are not new to the Kickstarter space, they were funded 280% over the goal. So that shows the level of interest for you guys. And in really make sure that you stay tuned towards the end we're going to be giving away. We're going to give you details on how we're going to give away these ZapBoxes. But more importantly, if you don't get your hands on one through us, you definitely want to go to Kickstarter, search up ZapBox. It's called the all new ZapBox. And, for good reason. So just go ahead and pledge. Pledge whatever amount you feel is great, but you're supporting a fantastic cause, because it's democratizing. It's allowing people of all ages, in all backgrounds around the world, really, who wouldn't be able to afford a $3,000 development headset. And now for $40 bucks, you can open your mind to the imagination of this new space. So really, really cool thing here that we're talking about. And so the best thing you can do to keep this thing going is to support and get your hands on a few of them. And actually, in the world of social distancing, I'd love to quickly talk about how does you know, what is social distancing? How can this be a solution for that? Or is it even a solution? And you know, what about, normally, we probably would have met at a conference, like I found out about ZapBox at AWE conference, I believe it was in 2017. And, had I not been to that conference, I wouldn't have known. But now that I see this, I know that all these conferences are canceled all around the world. But there's actually something here interesting for you, if you're wanting on how you can get together with people in a unique and memorable way. And so let's talk a little bit about that real quick.
Caspar Thykier 41:10
Yeah, I mean, that's definitely one of the ambitions for ZapBox is that ability to have collaborative experiences so much as you know, we're divided by a fair stretch of water. You know, we could both be in our, in our ZapBox kits, and we could be looking at our different tabletops. But seeing the same thing and collaborating in whatever that thing. Well, you know, it could be having a game of pool, you know, that thing. And that's super exciting, you know, about, you know, what, what that, again, it's just the how it fires the imagination, and it's right. It's about setting that free, because there are so many gifted creative people out there. And we're just excited about what that community will come up with. Once we've just created that play space, you know, we're just about building the canvas. And there's brushes and then let's let everyone paid
Sebastien Perez 42:07
Well, between zap works, and Unity. For those who are not familiar with Unity, I'm not gonna assume everyone does. But if you guys can stick around, I got some nerdy tech specs for you at the end about how this compares to headsets. But for those new to Unity, the reason why things like Unity and ZapBox are really interesting is because for people who are not super coders, developers, engineers, I want you to think about unity more as what they call a GUI, a graphical user interface. And the reason why I'm saying that not because the throw weird words at you. But really, if you think about things like Photoshop or PowerPoint, what it means is that for a large portion of building this thing, it's really about using a program with menus. And so when you hear the word Oh, developing for unity, we often think, Oh my god, there's no way I could get involved with that. And so what I want to encourage the people out there to say, check out check out first, ZapBox for something, you know, very simple streamline. What's great about unity is also very aligned with their mission as well as democratizing. It's free to download Unity, you can develop I believe the cap is like you're under a million dollars or something like that, I may be wrong, but an amazing product that can help you design not only for VR, but mixed reality and AR and also with that same 2D development, meaning on cell phone games, but we're kind of leaving the 2D if you want to get into the new stuff. So yeah, I think it's really cool that you guys are democratizing. So if you're new, and you've just have a little bit of curiosity, give it a try. Check it out again, support this Kickstarter. And you won't you won't be disappointed. Quick question to someone who's not a developer who buys this thing? Can they still do something with it? Is there a way to find content something like that for non-coders?
Caspar Thykier 44:22
So the there is a free downloads ZapBox at the company version one version two, and there certainly will be for all new ZapBox as well. And that already comes with I think is about eight or 10 different experiences that you can try everything from playing a mixed reality xylophone through to building a car engine to a tower defense game. There's a bit we did with two L's aquarium from Cape Town South Africa that explores a loggerhead turtle and a shark.
Sebastien Perez 44:58
Well my wife is from South Africa, that's great I love this.
Caspar Thykier 45:03
And there's, there's also, you know, we certainly have plans for new types of experiences for the launchable new ZapBox and we're just sort of looking at the moment but so there's absolutely this isn't something that you have to be a developer to enjoy their experiences there that anyone could enjoy. And it's really now about seeing that how the rest of the community reacts to it to build more experiences for more people.
Sebastien Perez 45:32
Absolutely. And so let's look I want to quickly give you guys an idea of how exciting This is because of the price point differences. So to give you an idea, Microsoft HoloLens now again, everything, to its credit, everything has a space. So it doesn't mean better than that's what Caspar said, and I totally agree with him. It's doesn't mean better than but it means that for most people, that price point is going to stop them right from getting started. And so I saw this interesting breakdown, that was basically saying on the ZapBox 2, which would be this guy, the cardboard one, which is great until April 2021. And April 2021, this thing gets even better with the new Kickstarter that you can support today. Now, the breakdown that I saw was okay, HoloLens one, because that's when this one the original was created. So that was the first comparison was about $3,000 for HoloLens one. And for scale, that means 100 of these. Yes that is 100 of these, so picture a roomful of people, they could either try one device and share, oh my! In today's day, I don't know from a hygiene perspective, if I want to share one headset across 100 people, or everyone gets one and they get to take it home. How fantastic. So I would say that that's number one. Now version 2. The new HoloLens is now 3500. Now, of course, there's eye tracking, there's a bunch of stuff in there that, you know, granite, but that still gets you 87 of the new ZapBox. And it's better, it's better than this one. So really, if you think about knocking off, you know, 12 or 13 of them, but still getting 87 of those things. Think about scaling classrooms, think about events, think about, or remote events. Really, right. So, yeah, I definitely want to plug this. And, this is a really cool, scalable solution sends in the mail, look at this sends in the mail. So and So yeah, so we're gonna quickly talk about compatibility. So for now, often, you know, the walled gardens, for people who don't know what that means the walled gardens is when a company keeps the hardware, meaning the headset, all within a single, you can only use their headset with their platform. So what I do know about ZapBox and Zappar are for the most part is that, number one, they support both Android and iOS meaning iPhone, and Android. It can be from iPhone six, and up. And, it can be Galaxy S eight, and up. And Pixel two and three and potential support will support Pixel four A, did I get that?
Caspar Thykier 48:52
That's right, we're hoping that on Samsung is going to be the sort of the Galaxy S nine in general, much energy so that the Android devices. And so I guess that we're going to start there for launch. And maybe without getting too technical. The one thing on Android that is just harder for us is that we need access to the camera frames. So once we wide angle lens adapter on that device, we need to try and get 60 frames per second. So 60 FPS, because that's going to allow for smooth sort of movement. And so you know, that there's work that we need to do to make those work on those devices. But you think how many thousands of Android devices are out there, you know, wish that we had a team that could make for every single one of them. So it's we've sort of gone, you know what we need somewhere that we can confidently start and still make sure that that you know, is still hundreds of millions of devices that are out on the market. And we're not saying it definitely won't work with the other ones, but we're almost go, you know what, we'll have a thing that you can try on your own device from our website just to see if it works. Great. If it doesn't, we'll let you know as the support for those devices sort of increases. But what we're sort of finding is that, you know, especially on iPhone, if you're if you go back to this sort of successes, like five years old now, so it is, in a lot of those devices and Android clearly, you know, you look at the Samsung S and the Pixel. And that's, again, just what a lot.
Sebastien Perez 50:29
Absolutely, Yeah, so definitely I think that so there's, there's more things that they are doing as well to democratize. And so not only is it available on multiple phones, which, as you mentioned, you can go ahead and test your device on their website, very clever, and see if it's compatible. And, and supporting both iOS and Android now, for developers, you know, you can basically develop one experience, and now export to multiple iOS, Android and other mediums. So you're not really wasting your time developing for one or the other. In fact, you're streamlining your process. The APIs are JavaScript based, which is very nice for developers and sort of making it simple. And about tracking. So like, let's, let's talk a little bit about these headsets. So actually, I've got a pair here behind me, these are the Nreal light augmented reality glasses. And basically, they have a lot of the things that we would find in these $3,000 headsets mainly, in the front, you have what's called depth sensors. And all that means is the same thing that's on your phones. And it basically tries to measure how far and where things are tracked. And so those sensors, you know, they're starting to put them on the back of the phones, which is great. And I'd love to find out how there's an opportunity there for Caspar and the Zappar team. But really, the sensors here is really trying to do what we were talking about where it makes sure that things are tracked on the flat surface, right, whether it be a wall, or on a tabletop or whatnot. But those sensors are expensive. Then you have cameras, multiple cameras built in, he talked about stereoscopic view, which means that you know, we have a left eye and right eye. And just like in the movies with the red and blue glasses, you know, you kind of need to merge in the middle, right, that's what we do. So now another thing I want to point out about this headset is that it has a what's called a three doff controller, whoa, scary word, it means that three degrees of freedom, it means that it's not tracked by the cameras, but basically it in practicality, in real life, it works more of like a floating TV remote, rather than something that has space. And that is really hard to achieve where, you know, if I'm holding a bouquet of flowers, I can move it forward, move it backwards, move it around. And that tracking is what is difficult and expensive to do. But these guys have figured out how to do it at scale. When you think about buying something like a HoloLens again, to its credit, it has a space, but the computer built into the headset, right? It gets outdated in like what one cycle two cycles, right? So. And what I mean by that is every year, things become well, as long as Moore's Law remains, you know, every year and a half or so technology gets cheaper, smaller. And so these guys, instead of having you put money into a headset, that is gonna eventually get outdated, they're leveraging the cell phone, right, because everyone's gonna buy one anyways, the technology is getting better. And so instead of having multiple cameras on the headset, they're using just the phone, they're going into wide field of view, which all these headsets generally can't get a wide field of view, because the different display technology, so they're using what's called AR Pass-through , which means that you're seeing through the camera rather than having a clear lens that displays inside of it. But the advantage is you have a huge space to create within and it’s really interesting to be able to touch a physical button on a piece of plastic or in this case, cardboard, but then see a 3D element move. And so now that you say all right, how do we get around the sensors? Well, they get around the sensors because they use those tracking devices or sorry, the Similar to QR code, and basically This tells the computer using computer vision, right? Instead of buying sensors, you're leveraging artificial intelligence, the computer's ability to see the world and interpret it. And it sees these little QR codes because, okay, that's a flat table, right? So it cuts out the needs for the sensors, then you have no need for cameras, boom, it's using the phone, no need for a computer built in, because it's the phone. You know, people gonna buy new phones every year. Right? So why build it in? All in one!! You know, there's so many advantages. So I think it's really, really clever on every front of the approach to democratize to make it cheap, to make it sustainable, and recyclable. Wow. Talk about that.
Caspar Thykier 55:52
Let's see, we haven't announced it yet. But I guess now's as good a time (laughs)
Sebastien Perez 56:02
All right, world premiere announcement on TDA channel.
Caspar Thykier 56:07
Well, we're fortunate enough to have joined up with a brilliant charity called Eden projects, that supports reforestation, around the world, helping those sort of poorest of the poor, you know, actually have some, you know, their own livelihoods and create these new regenerative forests. And so what we're doing is for every ZapBox that is purchased, and every indeed, ZapBox, ZapWorks plan, we're going to plant a tree through Eden projects. You know, it's just a, because I guess we're coming into that box. And we were thinking about the fact that, you know, we do have a digital footprint that we leave in serving and hosted. And, and I guess we do it as a small business, have a responsibility to think about those actions on behalf of our community as well. So we'll see some, yes. And there's some stuff around that going out soon. But you're right, you know, thinking about how do we create things that are not single use and have great sustainability and are done in a in the right way?
Sebastien Perez 57:18
Wow. How exciting. And I think that that's really you got to have a great deal of respect for this mission, putting it in people's hands, making it easy. And considering the impact on the earth, you know, actually a big content creator, Mr. Beast supported, made it made go viral, in fact, you know, to, sort of save trees and in team trees and whatnot. And so, really cool to, for you guys to be considering that, as well. So guys, if you are just tuning in now, or you forgot somehow about this product, I want to remind you to go to the Kickstarter, support them $40 bucks, you know, that they are considering, scalability, price, you know, sustainability, compatibility, and incredibility. So, yeah, and so, I think, for those people out there to recap, if you're new to getting your feet wet to mixed reality, or have tried VR, but want to see what this is all about, this is a great pickup $40 bucks, you can't go wrong. If you're thinking about developing, and have been, you know, the price has been a barrier, get started now. If you haven't developed your 2D developer, you're like, hey, I want to do some 3D. This is a good idea. And then if you can't build, then the good people at Zappar can help you build it, itself. So really, there's no excuse to not become an early adopter of this technology, to not surprise and delight not only your friends and family, but also your coworkers, your colleagues. It's memorable, it's unique. When you surprise someone with this, this literal magic so what I'm going to do is I'm going to wrap this up with number one, make sure you go out and support this Kickstarter, search up the new ZapBox. (https://www.zappar.com/ZapBox/) And you will find it, make sure that it's the cardboard one is fantastic, but the new one coming April 2021 will be the new and improved version. And, so I want to wrap up with this here. So the question for me is, you guys have already had a great deal of success from the Kickstarters to the company, working with huge brands. And in kind of bridging the gap here. Now the question is aside from the Kickstarter, because it's definitely going to get funded like the last one 280% over goal. But aside from that, what will take Zappar and ZapBox to the next level? What is an additional element that could come in? Whether that be technology supporters, adopters, investors? You tell me?
Caspar Thykier 1:00:32
Oh, that's a great question. When we asked ourselves a lot, I think I always describe the journey we've been on as, as a marathon rather than a sprint, and the last 10 years of us working on this stuff and trying to democratize it. To be honest, we've only just laid the foundations, and it's wonderful to see that, everything in terms of all the things you've talked about the hardware, the software, people's interest, the kind of conversations that are going on, within organizations, around how they can use a camera capability and, how it can drive new thinking and solutions, especially in this time, of not bound is all good. So we've got this brilliant sort of momentum and rising tide. But we ultimately still need that community of developers and designers to create the rules, and explore, excited about what these technologies can unlock. And so I think, you can talk about, you know, 5g coming along, Isn't that fantastic, you know, more of the cameras, as you say, with more depth sensor ability, and LIDAR, and all these other great things, wonderful. But this is all, this is the technology, which is always going to evolve. And I think you're absolutely right to go, you've got to forget the technology. And you've got to actually think about the user experience and the content that people are getting. And we've got to get away from it. The whole area of AR VR, you know, MR, XR, these are the new way of thinking about a camera capability, and a new way for people to discover and learn and engage and immerse. And so I think the most important thing for us is to continue the journey that we're on, which is how do we make things more robust, scalable, affordable, and allow a bigger community to embrace what's possible in this space, in order for that to be good for everyone. And we're not alone in that there's some great companies in our space that are all trying to do that. And so it's just about keep on keeping on.
Sebastien Perez 1:02:56
Right? Well, isn't it always, brilliant conversation, I really enjoyed speaking with you today. And again, for the people out there who are just tuning in. And make sure that you pick up the ZapBox today, and get started. It's an amazing, exciting opportunity for pretty much anyone and I want to say this. I've been, I've lived in Silicon Valley. And I think it's fantastic, what's possible to be built there, because of the information and resources and all that. But I also feel that the computer is not exclusive to a group of people. In fact, it's quite universal. We use our cell phones, you may be at home watching this on your cell phone right now. And so everyone has technology, everyone uses technology. But for some reason, technology isn't for everyone. And I would like to refute that, and say that if you want the future, this is what the opportunity is. It is the ability to bring literal magic into people's homes in reality. And it's that reality or alternate reality should not be designed by a certain group of people. It should be designed with everyone in mind. And only you know how to design for your neighborhood, for your city, for your life, for your family, for your community, your culture. And I would encourage those who see other people building their products that are for them. I would love to see more people jumping in designing for their realities for their people. And I think that's when we're going to build a more universal 3D computer. And if you're if you're down with that message, then make sure you pick up the ZapBox and keep your eyes to the sky because this is just the beginning. The next 20 years or next 30 years are going to be something that we can't even imagine. So thanks so much Caspar, you've been great.
Caspar Thykier 1:05:15
Really enjoyed it. Thanks Sebastien.
Sebastien Perez 1:05:19
I'm honored I have great respect and guys go out here and support a real cause. So my name is Sebastien from TDA. I might as well just rename myself. And we're always bringing you cutting edge tech in a way that you can understand and make it relatable to your life. Because technology should be for everyone. And that's what the message is being sent out today. Zappar and projects like ZapBox will help make this technology more inclusive and democratize for everyone. Fantastic. Thank you so much.
Caspar Thykier 1:05:55
Thank you.
Sebastien Perez 1:05:57
Alright, so what did you think? mission accomplished? Did we blow your mind with the ZapBox? Do you want one for yourself? Well, first off, if you enjoyed what you watch today, make sure that you let us know by dropping us a like it's a single click. If you didn't like it, drop us a dislike it's also a single click. And if you want to let us know why, what you did like, what are your thoughts, do you think is a great idea? You don't think so? You think it's advanced? You don't whatever is on your mind? Let us know in the comments down below. And make sure you subscribe for more awesome content from the future. Now, let's quickly talk about this giveaway because I made you a promise. And I'm all about staying true to my word. You know what I mean? So if you haven't subscribed, make sure that you are subscribed because if not, that is definitely Okay, is that box we're going to be giving away a bunch of these. But starting off with the first one. All you got to do is let us know in the comments below why you think you should get a ZapBox or you can nominate someone, sure, no problem. Make sure that you are subscribed to TDA on YouTube and that you tag two people who you think would enjoy this video and who knows. You might win, they might win. But all the rules are in the description down below. And of course, make sure that you stay tuned for the very next episode, because guess what? We're gonna give away even more cool stuff. It's gonna absolutely blow your mind. We hope you enjoyed today's show. And again, my name is Sebastien from TDA. Till next time, this is The Digital Acid.
